Scions, scions du bois












2














I'm listening to the comptines, while "Scions, scions du bois"'s lyrics is a bit confusing:




Scion, scions, scions du bois,

Pour la mère, pour la mère,

Scion, scions, scions du bois,

Pour la mère à Nicolas,

Qu'a cassé ses sabots

En mille morceaux !




what does it mean, the last two lines? "Qu'a cassé ses sabots en mille morceaux !" -- is it "who (Nicolas's mother) broke his hooves/clogs into a thousand pieces!"



I don't quite understand why the mother would break the hooves or clogs to a thousand pieces? and why it's in a song of sawing wood?










share|improve this question





























    2














    I'm listening to the comptines, while "Scions, scions du bois"'s lyrics is a bit confusing:




    Scion, scions, scions du bois,

    Pour la mère, pour la mère,

    Scion, scions, scions du bois,

    Pour la mère à Nicolas,

    Qu'a cassé ses sabots

    En mille morceaux !




    what does it mean, the last two lines? "Qu'a cassé ses sabots en mille morceaux !" -- is it "who (Nicolas's mother) broke his hooves/clogs into a thousand pieces!"



    I don't quite understand why the mother would break the hooves or clogs to a thousand pieces? and why it's in a song of sawing wood?










    share|improve this question



























      2












      2








      2







      I'm listening to the comptines, while "Scions, scions du bois"'s lyrics is a bit confusing:




      Scion, scions, scions du bois,

      Pour la mère, pour la mère,

      Scion, scions, scions du bois,

      Pour la mère à Nicolas,

      Qu'a cassé ses sabots

      En mille morceaux !




      what does it mean, the last two lines? "Qu'a cassé ses sabots en mille morceaux !" -- is it "who (Nicolas's mother) broke his hooves/clogs into a thousand pieces!"



      I don't quite understand why the mother would break the hooves or clogs to a thousand pieces? and why it's in a song of sawing wood?










      share|improve this question















      I'm listening to the comptines, while "Scions, scions du bois"'s lyrics is a bit confusing:




      Scion, scions, scions du bois,

      Pour la mère, pour la mère,

      Scion, scions, scions du bois,

      Pour la mère à Nicolas,

      Qu'a cassé ses sabots

      En mille morceaux !




      what does it mean, the last two lines? "Qu'a cassé ses sabots en mille morceaux !" -- is it "who (Nicolas's mother) broke his hooves/clogs into a thousand pieces!"



      I don't quite understand why the mother would break the hooves or clogs to a thousand pieces? and why it's in a song of sawing wood?







      sens paroles-de-chanson






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited Nov 12 at 22:42









      Stéphane Gimenez

      25.4k1255129




      25.4k1255129










      asked Nov 12 at 14:03









      athos

      8202616




      8202616






















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          1














          'Sabots' is never hooves when you're talking about people, it's wooden shoes/aka clogs. And @jiliagre is right that 'la mere Nicolas' means 'Mrs Nicolas', not actually anyone's mother, just an older woman, presumably married. It's an older turn of phrase, and not literary, but still in use. As to a thousand pieces rather than just two, it's a common exageration.



          So, keeping these points in mind.. what this boils down to is




          Let's saw, let's saw some wood 
          for mrs, for mrs
          Let's saw, let's saw some wood
          for mrs nicolas
          who broke her clogs
          in a thousand pieces
          Here are the pieces!



          Nothing the least bit mysterious about someone breaking her clogs (and they do break, for those of you who've never worn them, although admittedly rarely both at once) and sawing some wood to make her another.






          share|improve this answer























          • There is a problem in translating "mère" by "Mrs". A Harrap dictionary gives for "la mère Martin" the translation "old Mrs Martin" or "old mother Martin"; just "Mrs" is changing things too much.
            – LPH
            Nov 13 at 8:53












          • Your problem, not mine :-). I'm not a dictionary, I'm only bilingual.
            – George M
            Nov 13 at 17:26










          • I don't quite get your point! Does bilingualism entail the banishment of the dictionaries? Quite a novel notion!
            – LPH
            Nov 13 at 17:40



















          6














          Not knowing the song, I guess "la mère à Nicolas/qu'a cassé ses sabots" may be confusing because it is a rather familiar turn of phrase.



          A more standard turn would be:




          la mère de Nicolas, qui a cassé ses sabots




          Using "à" for a possessive "de" is familiar, and even sounds a bit childish (which can be expected in a *comptine):




          le jouet à mon frère



          la voiture à mon pote




          Qu'a cassé is a shortened, spoken form for qui a cassé.



          In spoken, familiar language, you could hear eg c'est qui qu'a fait fait ça ? for qui c'est qui a fait ça ?



          It is ambiguous whether Nicolas or his mother broke their clogs (personally, at the 1st reading, I rather understood it would be the mother).






          share|improve this answer





















          • I didn't have any doubt about the fact that it was the mother, until your answer prompted me to a second reading. But still, I think there's little doubt.
            – Stéphane Gimenez
            Nov 12 at 15:12






          • 2




            The usual wording is pour la mère Nicolas colloquially meaning Mrs Nicolas, like la mère Michel or la mère Brazier...
            – jlliagre
            Nov 12 at 23:21










          • @jlliagre: this should be a comment attached to the question.
            – Stéphane Gimenez
            Nov 13 at 3:13





















          5














          It is the particular meaning that « casser » can take in various contexts that is the cause of this problem in understanding; avowedly, the context can at times be hard to distinguish clearly; there are two essential meanings; one can be called "agentive" (the subject carries out the action of breaking as an act issued from his/her own will); as regards the second meaning the subject is only accessory to the breaking; since we have the same thing in English let's consider a sentence in that language that makes that clear; what would you say of the sentence "She broke her leg going down the stairs."? It is the same thing in this nursery rhyme.



          It seems there is another variant; I copy it below;




          Scions, scions du bois,

          Pour la mère, pour la mère,

          Scions, scions du bois

          Pour la mère Nicolas

          Qui a cassé ses sabots

          En mille morceaux.

          Voici les morceaux!




          According to this variant the tanslation is not




          • "who (Nicolas's mother) broke his hooves/clogs into a thousand pieces!"


          but




          • "For Mother Nicolas

            Who broke her clogs1

            Into a thousand pieces.

            Here are the pieces!".


          "Why is this broken clog story in a song about sawing wood?" is a question I had forgotten to consider. I'll answer it now; I wouldn't assert with absolute certitude that it is because clogs are carved out of wooden blocks and that necessarily, to make a pair of clogs two blocks of wood are needed, but the coincidence leaves little doubt as to that being the reason.



          1edit after reading of answer provided by George M






          share|improve this answer























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            3 Answers
            3






            active

            oldest

            votes








            3 Answers
            3






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            1














            'Sabots' is never hooves when you're talking about people, it's wooden shoes/aka clogs. And @jiliagre is right that 'la mere Nicolas' means 'Mrs Nicolas', not actually anyone's mother, just an older woman, presumably married. It's an older turn of phrase, and not literary, but still in use. As to a thousand pieces rather than just two, it's a common exageration.



            So, keeping these points in mind.. what this boils down to is




            Let's saw, let's saw some wood 
            for mrs, for mrs
            Let's saw, let's saw some wood
            for mrs nicolas
            who broke her clogs
            in a thousand pieces
            Here are the pieces!



            Nothing the least bit mysterious about someone breaking her clogs (and they do break, for those of you who've never worn them, although admittedly rarely both at once) and sawing some wood to make her another.






            share|improve this answer























            • There is a problem in translating "mère" by "Mrs". A Harrap dictionary gives for "la mère Martin" the translation "old Mrs Martin" or "old mother Martin"; just "Mrs" is changing things too much.
              – LPH
              Nov 13 at 8:53












            • Your problem, not mine :-). I'm not a dictionary, I'm only bilingual.
              – George M
              Nov 13 at 17:26










            • I don't quite get your point! Does bilingualism entail the banishment of the dictionaries? Quite a novel notion!
              – LPH
              Nov 13 at 17:40
















            1














            'Sabots' is never hooves when you're talking about people, it's wooden shoes/aka clogs. And @jiliagre is right that 'la mere Nicolas' means 'Mrs Nicolas', not actually anyone's mother, just an older woman, presumably married. It's an older turn of phrase, and not literary, but still in use. As to a thousand pieces rather than just two, it's a common exageration.



            So, keeping these points in mind.. what this boils down to is




            Let's saw, let's saw some wood 
            for mrs, for mrs
            Let's saw, let's saw some wood
            for mrs nicolas
            who broke her clogs
            in a thousand pieces
            Here are the pieces!



            Nothing the least bit mysterious about someone breaking her clogs (and they do break, for those of you who've never worn them, although admittedly rarely both at once) and sawing some wood to make her another.






            share|improve this answer























            • There is a problem in translating "mère" by "Mrs". A Harrap dictionary gives for "la mère Martin" the translation "old Mrs Martin" or "old mother Martin"; just "Mrs" is changing things too much.
              – LPH
              Nov 13 at 8:53












            • Your problem, not mine :-). I'm not a dictionary, I'm only bilingual.
              – George M
              Nov 13 at 17:26










            • I don't quite get your point! Does bilingualism entail the banishment of the dictionaries? Quite a novel notion!
              – LPH
              Nov 13 at 17:40














            1












            1








            1






            'Sabots' is never hooves when you're talking about people, it's wooden shoes/aka clogs. And @jiliagre is right that 'la mere Nicolas' means 'Mrs Nicolas', not actually anyone's mother, just an older woman, presumably married. It's an older turn of phrase, and not literary, but still in use. As to a thousand pieces rather than just two, it's a common exageration.



            So, keeping these points in mind.. what this boils down to is




            Let's saw, let's saw some wood 
            for mrs, for mrs
            Let's saw, let's saw some wood
            for mrs nicolas
            who broke her clogs
            in a thousand pieces
            Here are the pieces!



            Nothing the least bit mysterious about someone breaking her clogs (and they do break, for those of you who've never worn them, although admittedly rarely both at once) and sawing some wood to make her another.






            share|improve this answer














            'Sabots' is never hooves when you're talking about people, it's wooden shoes/aka clogs. And @jiliagre is right that 'la mere Nicolas' means 'Mrs Nicolas', not actually anyone's mother, just an older woman, presumably married. It's an older turn of phrase, and not literary, but still in use. As to a thousand pieces rather than just two, it's a common exageration.



            So, keeping these points in mind.. what this boils down to is




            Let's saw, let's saw some wood 
            for mrs, for mrs
            Let's saw, let's saw some wood
            for mrs nicolas
            who broke her clogs
            in a thousand pieces
            Here are the pieces!



            Nothing the least bit mysterious about someone breaking her clogs (and they do break, for those of you who've never worn them, although admittedly rarely both at once) and sawing some wood to make her another.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited Nov 13 at 1:55

























            answered Nov 13 at 1:29









            George M

            48118




            48118












            • There is a problem in translating "mère" by "Mrs". A Harrap dictionary gives for "la mère Martin" the translation "old Mrs Martin" or "old mother Martin"; just "Mrs" is changing things too much.
              – LPH
              Nov 13 at 8:53












            • Your problem, not mine :-). I'm not a dictionary, I'm only bilingual.
              – George M
              Nov 13 at 17:26










            • I don't quite get your point! Does bilingualism entail the banishment of the dictionaries? Quite a novel notion!
              – LPH
              Nov 13 at 17:40


















            • There is a problem in translating "mère" by "Mrs". A Harrap dictionary gives for "la mère Martin" the translation "old Mrs Martin" or "old mother Martin"; just "Mrs" is changing things too much.
              – LPH
              Nov 13 at 8:53












            • Your problem, not mine :-). I'm not a dictionary, I'm only bilingual.
              – George M
              Nov 13 at 17:26










            • I don't quite get your point! Does bilingualism entail the banishment of the dictionaries? Quite a novel notion!
              – LPH
              Nov 13 at 17:40
















            There is a problem in translating "mère" by "Mrs". A Harrap dictionary gives for "la mère Martin" the translation "old Mrs Martin" or "old mother Martin"; just "Mrs" is changing things too much.
            – LPH
            Nov 13 at 8:53






            There is a problem in translating "mère" by "Mrs". A Harrap dictionary gives for "la mère Martin" the translation "old Mrs Martin" or "old mother Martin"; just "Mrs" is changing things too much.
            – LPH
            Nov 13 at 8:53














            Your problem, not mine :-). I'm not a dictionary, I'm only bilingual.
            – George M
            Nov 13 at 17:26




            Your problem, not mine :-). I'm not a dictionary, I'm only bilingual.
            – George M
            Nov 13 at 17:26












            I don't quite get your point! Does bilingualism entail the banishment of the dictionaries? Quite a novel notion!
            – LPH
            Nov 13 at 17:40




            I don't quite get your point! Does bilingualism entail the banishment of the dictionaries? Quite a novel notion!
            – LPH
            Nov 13 at 17:40











            6














            Not knowing the song, I guess "la mère à Nicolas/qu'a cassé ses sabots" may be confusing because it is a rather familiar turn of phrase.



            A more standard turn would be:




            la mère de Nicolas, qui a cassé ses sabots




            Using "à" for a possessive "de" is familiar, and even sounds a bit childish (which can be expected in a *comptine):




            le jouet à mon frère



            la voiture à mon pote




            Qu'a cassé is a shortened, spoken form for qui a cassé.



            In spoken, familiar language, you could hear eg c'est qui qu'a fait fait ça ? for qui c'est qui a fait ça ?



            It is ambiguous whether Nicolas or his mother broke their clogs (personally, at the 1st reading, I rather understood it would be the mother).






            share|improve this answer





















            • I didn't have any doubt about the fact that it was the mother, until your answer prompted me to a second reading. But still, I think there's little doubt.
              – Stéphane Gimenez
              Nov 12 at 15:12






            • 2




              The usual wording is pour la mère Nicolas colloquially meaning Mrs Nicolas, like la mère Michel or la mère Brazier...
              – jlliagre
              Nov 12 at 23:21










            • @jlliagre: this should be a comment attached to the question.
              – Stéphane Gimenez
              Nov 13 at 3:13


















            6














            Not knowing the song, I guess "la mère à Nicolas/qu'a cassé ses sabots" may be confusing because it is a rather familiar turn of phrase.



            A more standard turn would be:




            la mère de Nicolas, qui a cassé ses sabots




            Using "à" for a possessive "de" is familiar, and even sounds a bit childish (which can be expected in a *comptine):




            le jouet à mon frère



            la voiture à mon pote




            Qu'a cassé is a shortened, spoken form for qui a cassé.



            In spoken, familiar language, you could hear eg c'est qui qu'a fait fait ça ? for qui c'est qui a fait ça ?



            It is ambiguous whether Nicolas or his mother broke their clogs (personally, at the 1st reading, I rather understood it would be the mother).






            share|improve this answer





















            • I didn't have any doubt about the fact that it was the mother, until your answer prompted me to a second reading. But still, I think there's little doubt.
              – Stéphane Gimenez
              Nov 12 at 15:12






            • 2




              The usual wording is pour la mère Nicolas colloquially meaning Mrs Nicolas, like la mère Michel or la mère Brazier...
              – jlliagre
              Nov 12 at 23:21










            • @jlliagre: this should be a comment attached to the question.
              – Stéphane Gimenez
              Nov 13 at 3:13
















            6












            6








            6






            Not knowing the song, I guess "la mère à Nicolas/qu'a cassé ses sabots" may be confusing because it is a rather familiar turn of phrase.



            A more standard turn would be:




            la mère de Nicolas, qui a cassé ses sabots




            Using "à" for a possessive "de" is familiar, and even sounds a bit childish (which can be expected in a *comptine):




            le jouet à mon frère



            la voiture à mon pote




            Qu'a cassé is a shortened, spoken form for qui a cassé.



            In spoken, familiar language, you could hear eg c'est qui qu'a fait fait ça ? for qui c'est qui a fait ça ?



            It is ambiguous whether Nicolas or his mother broke their clogs (personally, at the 1st reading, I rather understood it would be the mother).






            share|improve this answer












            Not knowing the song, I guess "la mère à Nicolas/qu'a cassé ses sabots" may be confusing because it is a rather familiar turn of phrase.



            A more standard turn would be:




            la mère de Nicolas, qui a cassé ses sabots




            Using "à" for a possessive "de" is familiar, and even sounds a bit childish (which can be expected in a *comptine):




            le jouet à mon frère



            la voiture à mon pote




            Qu'a cassé is a shortened, spoken form for qui a cassé.



            In spoken, familiar language, you could hear eg c'est qui qu'a fait fait ça ? for qui c'est qui a fait ça ?



            It is ambiguous whether Nicolas or his mother broke their clogs (personally, at the 1st reading, I rather understood it would be the mother).







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered Nov 12 at 14:24









            Greg

            6,309922




            6,309922












            • I didn't have any doubt about the fact that it was the mother, until your answer prompted me to a second reading. But still, I think there's little doubt.
              – Stéphane Gimenez
              Nov 12 at 15:12






            • 2




              The usual wording is pour la mère Nicolas colloquially meaning Mrs Nicolas, like la mère Michel or la mère Brazier...
              – jlliagre
              Nov 12 at 23:21










            • @jlliagre: this should be a comment attached to the question.
              – Stéphane Gimenez
              Nov 13 at 3:13




















            • I didn't have any doubt about the fact that it was the mother, until your answer prompted me to a second reading. But still, I think there's little doubt.
              – Stéphane Gimenez
              Nov 12 at 15:12






            • 2




              The usual wording is pour la mère Nicolas colloquially meaning Mrs Nicolas, like la mère Michel or la mère Brazier...
              – jlliagre
              Nov 12 at 23:21










            • @jlliagre: this should be a comment attached to the question.
              – Stéphane Gimenez
              Nov 13 at 3:13


















            I didn't have any doubt about the fact that it was the mother, until your answer prompted me to a second reading. But still, I think there's little doubt.
            – Stéphane Gimenez
            Nov 12 at 15:12




            I didn't have any doubt about the fact that it was the mother, until your answer prompted me to a second reading. But still, I think there's little doubt.
            – Stéphane Gimenez
            Nov 12 at 15:12




            2




            2




            The usual wording is pour la mère Nicolas colloquially meaning Mrs Nicolas, like la mère Michel or la mère Brazier...
            – jlliagre
            Nov 12 at 23:21




            The usual wording is pour la mère Nicolas colloquially meaning Mrs Nicolas, like la mère Michel or la mère Brazier...
            – jlliagre
            Nov 12 at 23:21












            @jlliagre: this should be a comment attached to the question.
            – Stéphane Gimenez
            Nov 13 at 3:13






            @jlliagre: this should be a comment attached to the question.
            – Stéphane Gimenez
            Nov 13 at 3:13













            5














            It is the particular meaning that « casser » can take in various contexts that is the cause of this problem in understanding; avowedly, the context can at times be hard to distinguish clearly; there are two essential meanings; one can be called "agentive" (the subject carries out the action of breaking as an act issued from his/her own will); as regards the second meaning the subject is only accessory to the breaking; since we have the same thing in English let's consider a sentence in that language that makes that clear; what would you say of the sentence "She broke her leg going down the stairs."? It is the same thing in this nursery rhyme.



            It seems there is another variant; I copy it below;




            Scions, scions du bois,

            Pour la mère, pour la mère,

            Scions, scions du bois

            Pour la mère Nicolas

            Qui a cassé ses sabots

            En mille morceaux.

            Voici les morceaux!




            According to this variant the tanslation is not




            • "who (Nicolas's mother) broke his hooves/clogs into a thousand pieces!"


            but




            • "For Mother Nicolas

              Who broke her clogs1

              Into a thousand pieces.

              Here are the pieces!".


            "Why is this broken clog story in a song about sawing wood?" is a question I had forgotten to consider. I'll answer it now; I wouldn't assert with absolute certitude that it is because clogs are carved out of wooden blocks and that necessarily, to make a pair of clogs two blocks of wood are needed, but the coincidence leaves little doubt as to that being the reason.



            1edit after reading of answer provided by George M






            share|improve this answer




























              5














              It is the particular meaning that « casser » can take in various contexts that is the cause of this problem in understanding; avowedly, the context can at times be hard to distinguish clearly; there are two essential meanings; one can be called "agentive" (the subject carries out the action of breaking as an act issued from his/her own will); as regards the second meaning the subject is only accessory to the breaking; since we have the same thing in English let's consider a sentence in that language that makes that clear; what would you say of the sentence "She broke her leg going down the stairs."? It is the same thing in this nursery rhyme.



              It seems there is another variant; I copy it below;




              Scions, scions du bois,

              Pour la mère, pour la mère,

              Scions, scions du bois

              Pour la mère Nicolas

              Qui a cassé ses sabots

              En mille morceaux.

              Voici les morceaux!




              According to this variant the tanslation is not




              • "who (Nicolas's mother) broke his hooves/clogs into a thousand pieces!"


              but




              • "For Mother Nicolas

                Who broke her clogs1

                Into a thousand pieces.

                Here are the pieces!".


              "Why is this broken clog story in a song about sawing wood?" is a question I had forgotten to consider. I'll answer it now; I wouldn't assert with absolute certitude that it is because clogs are carved out of wooden blocks and that necessarily, to make a pair of clogs two blocks of wood are needed, but the coincidence leaves little doubt as to that being the reason.



              1edit after reading of answer provided by George M






              share|improve this answer


























                5












                5








                5






                It is the particular meaning that « casser » can take in various contexts that is the cause of this problem in understanding; avowedly, the context can at times be hard to distinguish clearly; there are two essential meanings; one can be called "agentive" (the subject carries out the action of breaking as an act issued from his/her own will); as regards the second meaning the subject is only accessory to the breaking; since we have the same thing in English let's consider a sentence in that language that makes that clear; what would you say of the sentence "She broke her leg going down the stairs."? It is the same thing in this nursery rhyme.



                It seems there is another variant; I copy it below;




                Scions, scions du bois,

                Pour la mère, pour la mère,

                Scions, scions du bois

                Pour la mère Nicolas

                Qui a cassé ses sabots

                En mille morceaux.

                Voici les morceaux!




                According to this variant the tanslation is not




                • "who (Nicolas's mother) broke his hooves/clogs into a thousand pieces!"


                but




                • "For Mother Nicolas

                  Who broke her clogs1

                  Into a thousand pieces.

                  Here are the pieces!".


                "Why is this broken clog story in a song about sawing wood?" is a question I had forgotten to consider. I'll answer it now; I wouldn't assert with absolute certitude that it is because clogs are carved out of wooden blocks and that necessarily, to make a pair of clogs two blocks of wood are needed, but the coincidence leaves little doubt as to that being the reason.



                1edit after reading of answer provided by George M






                share|improve this answer














                It is the particular meaning that « casser » can take in various contexts that is the cause of this problem in understanding; avowedly, the context can at times be hard to distinguish clearly; there are two essential meanings; one can be called "agentive" (the subject carries out the action of breaking as an act issued from his/her own will); as regards the second meaning the subject is only accessory to the breaking; since we have the same thing in English let's consider a sentence in that language that makes that clear; what would you say of the sentence "She broke her leg going down the stairs."? It is the same thing in this nursery rhyme.



                It seems there is another variant; I copy it below;




                Scions, scions du bois,

                Pour la mère, pour la mère,

                Scions, scions du bois

                Pour la mère Nicolas

                Qui a cassé ses sabots

                En mille morceaux.

                Voici les morceaux!




                According to this variant the tanslation is not




                • "who (Nicolas's mother) broke his hooves/clogs into a thousand pieces!"


                but




                • "For Mother Nicolas

                  Who broke her clogs1

                  Into a thousand pieces.

                  Here are the pieces!".


                "Why is this broken clog story in a song about sawing wood?" is a question I had forgotten to consider. I'll answer it now; I wouldn't assert with absolute certitude that it is because clogs are carved out of wooden blocks and that necessarily, to make a pair of clogs two blocks of wood are needed, but the coincidence leaves little doubt as to that being the reason.



                1edit after reading of answer provided by George M







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                edited Nov 13 at 12:20

























                answered Nov 12 at 14:40









                LPH

                5,204317




                5,204317






























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